MIDI Integration


#1

Hey there,
Just to explain myself or just the backround of my suggestions or lets say complainment.
I bought a MTouch in december last year … After plaing around with it I wanted to hook up my MIDI stuff… No possibility to this with MPC , so looked up the old forum and found several requests about MIDI implementation.
Every of theese was answered by someone of the development team with the following words: We want to spend our time on other requests because with MPC Tools there is a free option to connect MIDI devices.
OK FINE
Few months later Martin sold MPC with the development team, it became ONYX. Also fine. Official Comments to this stated that the team wants to focus resources on the software… it was stated as an improvment for the future of this soft.
I didnt used it for some time then updated to ONYX and wanted to set up my stuff once again… started and ohh MPC doesnt work anymore… hmmm maybe since soft is updated there is also an apdate for MPC Tools.
No it was implemented into Showcockpit… and if you want your old features pay around 80 bucks WTF???
Honestly?
Great improvment on the soft so far. And its really strange that with the change from MPC to ONYX there has not been a single release of a free MPC tools anymore. I dont support that kind of marketing.
And Honestly I dont need a yoistick or support for Resolume Arena or GMA (GMA can handle MIDI by itself) and I wont pay for something that was asked over years and never done because there was a free workaround and now there isn´t. Also I dont need all the Script stuff and whatever Showcockpit offers beside the MIDI stuff. People who need it … should buy it. I think there are many more people who dont need the other stuff.

So my request : MIDI integration…
And if ONYX or Obsisdian arent connected to Mr. Diaz in any way like it was told then they also shouldnt care about his pockets and give us … the users… MIDI like other consoles and softs have it.
Just basic MIDI send and return to connect to faders and buttons some basic functions.
Personally I will sell my MPC ONYX stuff if this wont happen in nearby time and buy another system.

THX for reading


#2

GMA does not work without hardware, hardware that cost 20x the amount of Onyx+Showcockpit put together. Aside from that, GMA still needs another paid software (extremely inferior in comparison to SC) to relay note into CC. MPCTools/Showcockpit was created by one person, and was never free, it was $40 Voluntary. You may have not volunteered to support…does not make it free. The man R/D put insane amount of time into developing, and updating the software to be in line with most recent MPC/Onyx updates. Should he not be compensated? When it comes to Onyx, don’t you think the developers have a right to utilize, and focus on proprietary controls over midi, as proprietary is native, seamless, and stable… Unlike midi which can have hick ups due to the thousands of third party controller options, and functionality differences (hence the reason Showcockpit releases dedicated drivers). $80-$200 for ShowCockpit is undervalued in my opinion


#3

Aehhm yeah
1st) If I can volunteer to something it is free in first place, or it isnt called volunteer.
2nd) Lets take Cuelux (another light soft), a dongle is 400 bucks, software is free ( as ONYX :smiley: with a M touch). There you have MIDI integration. A dot2 has rudementary MIDI from day one. Its a common thing.

Honestly what do we talk about, nowadays MIDI is standard for every console software for light and audio.
Before ONYX there was a solution basicly integrated trough a tool which if I remember right could be even installed on consoles.
Now it disappeared … Im asking for replace without buying anything else not for a fancy feature or whatever.
And as I said I dont need GMA, Arena, LUA supportor the Presets of R/D just a function to map my MIDI stuff.
Just for you to understand: I ask for afeature that is common today, that was asked for several times before. youre right eb should be compensated for work. But Im not asking him for a free license Im asking the support and development for a integrated MIDI support. If anyone needs all the other stuff and it has to be payed now… please buy it and dont try to crack it.
Besides that also predefined pallettes are also not that rare nowdays but i dont need them reallly.
And your comment on stability is really intresting as I used MPC a few times years ago and same problems I found back then I found now nothing really changed … as for example that you cant still change the preset release timing. But stability was never really one. Besides that I think that developers of which piece of tech you would like to take dont have any right to release unstable software and make their betatest whith customers and when it comes to features have to hear to people who invested their money into them instead of helping another developer to sell his stuff. And as it comes to professional stage engeneering this counts more and more. For example: I dont know if I should buy the A&H SQ5 because of their new buy our Plugin policy on rudumentary functions like EQs. I think I will still do it but just because I dont need any of the plugins offered.
The other thing is that ONYX is a more professional piece of software than in average , Techs use it, i think its their job to find out whether their MIDI stuff is doing it properly or not.
I think that software which just translates MIDI to OSC and sensd it to the software and vice versa is a bit expensive for 80bucks, but thats the only thing I need nothing more. I can buy a Win10 I mean a licensed one not the key (max10$) for 100$ and yeah thats worth it. Its an OS where hundreds of people worked, it has loads of functions, loads of artwork ehatever. Honestly if R/D would take 20$ for it I would not even take the time to write as it would cost me more in the end.
Its also a very funny price model … I buy the basic license for25 and then ? what can I do with this soft?
Nothing… so why just dont sell it for 75 directly.
If sb owns a console like M1 or M6? Do they have to buy Showcockpit too? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: youre right this is even better … they bought a piece of tech for thousands and still dont get MIDI
Honestly I think I just sell my stuff…
Wanted to give it another try after the PSU of our M1 gave up in our storage years ago but I feel like it became even worse than back then.


#4

What do you want/need to do that can’t be done via:
http://support.obsidiancontrol.com/Content/General/System_Settings.htm?Highlight=midi
http://support.obsidiancontrol.com/Content/Modifying_Cues/Cue_Macros/Midi_Macros.htm?Highlight=midi

I guess you’re needing more advanced than that. (“send and return to connect faders and buttons some basic functions”).

I have almost never used MIDI integrated with my lighting console. It never provided any benefit for me and my needs over using just the console itself. I realize that a lot of people do use it, and some very extensively. I’ve just never had a need for it.

I actually will be using MIDI for some things that I have coming in the next couple of years, but already plan to make use of ShowCockpit for that because of some additional capabilities it provides that I’ll need/want.

I actually appreciate Obsidian focusing on the primary lighting-related features of their lighting system rather than spending time and effort on something I very rarely use. There’s a LOT more core lighting features I’d like to have in Onyx before more advanced MIDI capability - like pixel mapping, improved FX engine, etc. I’d much prefer Obsidain spend their time on those core lighting features than MIDI integration.

But that’s just me and based on my needs. I guess I might also decide to move to another console brand if I needed the level of MIDI control that you do (more than very basic, but not so advanced that you need - or feel you should have to get - ShowCockpit). And I think that’s fine - everyone should chose the lighting system that meets their needs the best.


#6

Hey!

Disclaimer: I’m the developer of ShowCockpit.

I see the ShowCockpit pricing model as one of the most transparent. You pay per feature you want to use (drivers costs) and for the thing that makes the drivers work (the cost of Basic). I could also increase all the drivers by a percentage and offer the Basic, but this, for me, is not transparency.

I wish I could be comparing to a Microsoft market too and drop the prices. If you think you can build something similar with less than 80 bucks, please go ahead :slight_smile: But don’t forget to account not only for development, but also for fixed costs with web server, licensing server, certificates, etc…

And by the way, the MPCTools you used did not stop working for M-PC, and I also never said anywhere it would get infinite updates. I disabled donations well before I closed the project.

All the development on MPCTools started with a very small application that I made for myself and kindly shared. It eventually grew and became much more than it was in the beginning. Users that supported the project along the way have been compensated for that - all users that made the transition to ShowCockpit before the Onyx driver was out are now using ShowCockpit + Onyx FREE OF CHARGE. If you have supported the MPCTools project in the past, you only need to buy the Onyx driver - if MPCTools was such an important piece in your setup and you did not support it, you will have to buy the whole thing now if you want… :slight_smile:


#7

As I said I bought the stuff just before the change to ONYX. So I couldn`t donate even if I wanted to.
And to make things clear even if I am not really comfortable with your pricings or something else.
Im not really blaming you of anything. You are a private person and can code software for whatever you like and sell it as much as you want.
But the development team. As I stated I bought just before the change to ONYX. Then I was playing around with it and came to the point to intigrate my MIDI stuff ( as it was stated to be possible on adds for the software), found out I had to install a “plugin” called MPC Tools. This plugin is free and thats why the development team says that they dont implement MIDI directly. OK … If it works… fine. And now after half a year I wanted to start using the stuff in real life there is a update / company change that makes things better as stated by Martin/ Elation/ developers. And I cant use the stuff anymore?
My opinion is: OK if MPC Tools was free before and they thought they dont need to implement MIDI … FINE !
But now this is gone due to your use of your rights ( Take money for work) so it would be logical that Development implements it now. I bought with the information I can use my MIDI stuff. So I want to. Without paying in addition. Properly as it has been for years before. Its not my buisness that they concentrated on other things for years because there was MPC Tools around.
And about the thing with MPC and MPC Tools: Yeah I was thinking about using the last version of MPC instead. But as the last one has problems with the DMX output (slowed down somehow) its not an option.

So sorry Mate… As I said for me its too expensive ( affordable but just… No). You are right saying you want money for your work. But I dont need a software for translating signals connected to some servers or whatever you want to tell me. Why should I want to pay for the server then? Licensing server? Really ? Do you think that if today everything is cracked after few days after release your small development office will do something about it? If sb with the skill wants to he/she will get showcockpit for free and if you are lucky then not upload the crack. There are even russian sites offering to compile simple cracks for I think 30$.
If you would have a basic version with the old basic features for free or 10 bucks and a premium version with all the script and other stuff nobody really needs for MIDI for 80 or 100 bucks that would be transparent for me.

In the end i think we wont come nowhere with our discussion here.
I think I posted my initial post into SUGGESTIONS… so thats my suggestion: Since there isnt a free option to implement MIDI anymore. The option that was reffered to for years instead of working on it. please implement MIDI. Or to be cool… and to recognize Mr Diaz work …pay him a good amount for Show Cockpit and implement it directly into ONYX. Give him a job for supporting it if you dont want to do it

If a single guy could write the code for it years ago I think it shouldnt be such a big task for a development team… just in case sb wants to say they have to focus on other things again.


#8

Midi Notes are supported in ONYX, the process of mapping is explained here and has been in the software platform for many years.
Not sure why you assume you have no midi control in ONYX without an external tool.

http://support.obsidiancontrol.com/Content/Modifying_Cues/Cue_Macros/Midi_Macros.htm

We do not make development choices based on third party plugins and what they do and don’t offer. The priorities are based on our roadmap of features we’d like to add to make the platform more fun and enhance its creative abilities. At the moment no major changes to MIDI are planned, it will get an overhaul eventually but I can not give you a time frame. Certainly not within the next year.

Also while we love Ricardo we have no formal business relationship and do not profit from his efforts. M-PC was already being phased out, that change had nothing to do with Obsidian but was long planned before this by Ricardo. He is an independent company that makes fun tools to interact with ONYX. Discussions of the amount of fees and its business model is not for this forum. Please discuss this in private with Ricardo.

Thanks for understanding, I hope you can get your MIDI items mapped using the ONYX midi macro system and enjoy the software.